Major General Zamani Lekwot Rtd started schooling when the British were in Nigeria. He joined the Army in 1959, trained overseas and came back into the country. In fact, he participated in the civil war. He was posted as the military governor of the then River State in 1975-78. At the end of his tenure, he was posted back to the military as Commander of 3 Brigade Kano in 1978, 12 Brigade Aba in 1972, 33 Brigade Maiduguri in 1973-74. From there he went for his staff course in the United States. He was commandant NDA in 1979-81 and GOC 82Div in 1981-4 from where he was redeployed as Ambassador to four West African countries based in Senegal from 1984-7. He retired after all these and settled home in Kaduna. Recently, our Editor-in-Chief met with him in Kaduna and had a conversation on the state of things in Nigeria. He shared his views on issues such as security, restructuring and politics. It is a good read.

 

Countdown: In your life journey, is there any aspect of it that actually affirmed or affected your faith? Are there high or low moments you can pinpoint?

 

General: No I cannot say so. On the contrary, my faith in God remained unshaken. It accounted for all the successes I scored during my humble contributions to national service. I cannot recall any moment irrespective of the pressure and tension when my spirit went low. I am an incurable optimist. I look at the bright side of things, even when the going gets. Tough, I believe that situation changes come with patience. So my faith in God remains unshaken and I thank Him for that attribute. I never gave up on any issue, instead I kept trying until I crossed the Rubicon come what may.

 

Countdown: As a Nigerian Statesman, there has been a lot of cries on the marginalization of Christians in Nigeria. And since the emergence of this administration, the federal character policy has been described by some to have been dumped in history. Going by the one-sided appointments that are seen in various security agencies and other key sectors of the economy. Do you share in the view that there is some kind of discrimination or what is your view of the state of things?

 

General: The fact that our system is not working well is the proof. As I told you, I witnessed British rule as a young schoolboy. I saw independence along with others of my age. The system the British left with us was very good. But as of today, we have derailed. That is one of the reasons why things are not working well. In every federal republic in the world, there is a particular way in which things are run. When you talk of lopsided appointments, it is true, which should not be so because of our diversity which is a source of strength. For whatever reason, people in authority have decided to change, the rules of the game in the middle of the game. And that explains the confusion we are going through. As far as the persecution of Christians is concerned, that is true because most of the killings going on are in the Christian-dominated community nationwide. Section 10 of the Constitution allows freedom of assembly, worship etc. The government of the federation or of a state shall not adopt any religion as state religion. But the caveat is in exercising our freedom, we should not cause problems for our neighbours. In other words, live and let’s live should be the mantra. But we have seen where things are being deliberately skewed one way or the other in favour of one religion without any empathy for the feelings of the victims. The pains and worries caused account for the hue and cry going on in the country. The blueprint is there but some people in authority have ignored it. The federal character commission was established deliberately to protect the interest of all Nigerians, irrespective of creed. That being the case, why we have problems is because some people in the corridors of power are either manipulating the system or they are interfering with the philosophy that established the federal character commission. For things to work, we have to go back to the drawing board. There is no shortage of manpower anywhere in Nigeria today. All states have qualified people because of the freedom of access to education.

 

Countdown: On this issue of suffering, it is believed in certain quarters that as things are today in Nigeria, it is Christians that are being marginalised. And the Christians have an umbrella body called the Christians Association of Nigeria (CAN). Do you think they are doing enough in making this necessary change come to stay?

 

General: Well, CAN was established to build bridges across the various church denominations, to ensure that they operate based on the legacy the Holy Bible established. It is also meant to protect the interest of the church as a community to serve God and the country. It is in this light that the church leadership has always tried to advice the government on some national issues from time to time especially on the need to treat all citizen fairly without discrimination. Yes, therefore, the answer to your question is because Press statements have always been issued criticizing the lopsided appointments in the security agencies and other government institutions asking the government to correct anomalies to enhance national unity.

 

Countdown: As you just rightly said the system is shaky, and we do not have to wait till it collapses on all of us. But when you look at some of the policies, aside from appointments, some sections of the country seem to be more patronised than others. As you said, there are competent hands across the federation if they want to do justice. But with policies such as the grazing reserves, cattle ranching, and the recent Water Bill being pushed by this current government, do you think the Christian politicians in the 9^th Assembly are doing enough to ensure that we realise the impact of the problem on the ground.

 

General: The water channels bill does not violate religious freedom. All the legislators in the National Assembly are therefore duty bound to peruse it with a tinge of nationalism. Since I am not a lawyer I can only quote someone else who sees it as a contradiction of the land use Act which gives the State Governor the power to administer land in their state on behalf of the people.

 

Countdown: What about the grazing reserve?

General: We have some in some parts of the country which were established during the colonial days. The question is whether they are functioning since the number of cattle appears to have reduced. That may be why some herdsmen come in from Niger and Cameroon every season into the country. The grazing reserves were established to accommodate herdsmen with their cattle by law. If a problem arises due process is to be followed to solve it. However, some people have been heard changing from grazing reserves to cattle colonies and to RUGA. These nuances are pregnant with meanings which is why some people are suspicious. Someone as also observed that since cattle rearing is a business like any other business the cattle owners should procure land anywhere in the country like any other business for their needs. Because of our large market the products are in high demand. One of the governors is said to have send a team to Kenya to study how they do theirs.

When the team returned a law was enacted ti apply the foreign idea the in the proper way. Consequently, cattle ranching should be handled by the state governments, based on the number of cattle and herders available through due process. If that is properly handled, then the question of herders roaming round the countryside vandalizing people’s farms and causing crisis will disappear for peace and prosperity to reign.

 

Countdown: On the issue of restructuring, what is your view and definition of restructuring? Do you think Nigeria needs to be restructured?

 

General: I have answered this question many times but I will repeat some of the things I said before. Restructuring is the reviewing, remodeling or reshaping of anything that needs such attention for better results in my humble opinion. In our context, the British granted us independence with three regions, based on their own experience because Great Britain is a collection of four ethnic groups. They have the English in England, the Scottish in Scotland, the Welsh in Wales and the Irish in Northern Ireland, each one is semi-autonomous but they are all proudly British.

 

At that time each region had its own constitution. Six years after the British left Nigeria, there was a military coup, which dissolved the regions and everything was centralized. That was the beginning of our problems. Therefore the restructuring people are talking about is the need to look at how our system is not functioning properly, because of the centrally controlled mechanisms. As a member of the 2014 National Conference, we recommended restructuring so as to spread the responsibility of government across its 3 tiers for better results and accountability. In this context, restructuring has many facets. The first one that calls for urgent attention is security. At independence in 1960, we had the Nigeria Police and the Local Authority Police. The 2014 National Conference recommended State and Local Government Police. If we have them in place, what we are going through in terms of banditry and kidnapping will be handle differently. This is because the local people who know the rural areas where will address these security challenges before get out of hand. The Nigeria Police will now be supervising. At the moment, they are undermanned and underequipped. And because of the spate of insecurity, they have no time to train. Since the problem has become so gigantic, the right thing to do is to share the workload between local, state and federal governments. The American system we copied has three types of Police and it is working for them.

 

The next is the devolution of power. The Conference also recommended the independence of the judiciary and local governments. At the moment, some Governors are sitting on the rights of such local governments. Take the joint account operation for instance. When money for the local governments comes in from Abuja, it passes through the state government which then decides when and how much to pass to them. So in most of these local governments, after salaries nothing else is available for development. That should not be so.

 

Still on devolution of power, there are too many things in the exclusive legislative list that the federal government is holding on to. Some of them should be decentralized to the states because the problems facing the state are different. Some of the functions the federal government should concentrate on are defence, foreign affairs, internal affairs etc. just to mention only three. In sum, restructuring is meant to go back to what Nigeria was before, with some modifications. The 2014 National Conference recommended the states as federating units although some people preferred our going back to the regions. But those of us from the former North said no because it is not possible to administer the Northern States from Kaduna as before. State creation that has become a vehicle for rapid development is the best option. Even at that, adjustments are required here and there were necessary to fine tune the present structure. In countries like India, largest democracy in the world, states are the federating units and their system is working for them. Indian population is about 1.3 Billion, while Nigeria is not up to 200 Million. In light of the above, restructuring is the way to go and how to go about it is to take a look at the 2014 National Conference report, amend what is amendable and implement what is implementable. Government should therefore review their earlier decision about the 2014 conference report, which contains the solutions to many of our current serious national problems. Since the previous government had been working on the above report when they came into office, all that this government need to continue from where their predecessors stopped since government is a continuum.

 

Our insecurity issue is like a sore tongue/throat. The question of the armed foreign bandits crossing into our country unchallenged is therefore very unfortunate for which we are now paying the price. So restructuring is the way to go and how to go about is through purposeful dialogue to fix the details.

 

Countdown: Creation of states is a means of rapid development. Many states in Nigeria today have been described as unviable, and many of the states have practically been sourcing grants and bailouts from the federal government. As a one-time state administrator that has first-hand knowledge in running of states, do you think 36 states are too many for the economy, and what do you advise a system like ours should operate?

 

General: Well, the statement about some states not being viable is not new. They are not viable not because of lack of resources, rather, they appear unviable because of mismanagement of available resources. All states in the country have human and material assets. The problem is that some of the assets like solid minerals are untapped. Agriculture is not developed. If by being unviable they are talking about the budget, well mismanagement is the major problem. Some people live like Lords, whereas in the rural areas, water, electricity and good roads are lacking. It is true that no government can have all the money it wants, but what is required is more prudence. The states were created based on assessment and as you can see, when a new state is created new job opportunities are created being a new development centers. For example most of the current states capitals were former provincial capitals under the regions, but today they are vibrant metropolises. But today because of the creation of states and the opportunities given, they are now blooming cities. So prudence is what is required. There is therefore room for a few new states with enough manpower, and natural resources and other factors to run them.

 

Next is law enforcement which a far cry from what it should be because people commit crimes and nothing happens. If law enforcement is put in place properly, people will behave themselves. Look at how some of the drivers behave on the highways, Nigeria has become a laughing stock. There are two ways of ensuring law and order: one is to take care of the judiciary by ensuring their independence so that judgments can be passed based on the call of duty. The second is to reform and properly empower the Nigeria Police. Part of the reformation will be to recruit more hands, then equip them and support them to do their work. There should be no sacred cows. Anybody who breaks the law should be sanctioned. When people know this, they will behave well. At the moment, we are running a system of anything goes which is a shame.

 

Countdown: Some people are of the opinion that one of the major issues affecting the viability of states is the issue of cost of public service. Our democracy has been described as one of the most expensive in the world. What cost reduction measures apart from prudence which you have rightly mentioned do you think can help free the economy a little, if any?

 

General: If the right caliber of people are put in office and supported, things will be fine. One of the questionable issues that our democracy has brought is picking people from anywhere and putting them where they should not be. The civil service is run by professionals. But today the present dispensation can appoint anybody as secretary to the government. This position has always been occupied by people with civil service background, being in a better position by virtue of their training and experience to control the permanent secretaries etc. This is one of the things the new presidential system we are operating has introduced. When such people leave and are replaced by their peers continuity is disrupted. However, since our presidential system is only 41 years of experimentation, time and space as well as the experience gained will show us the best way forward. On the cost reduction measures, the 2014 conference recommendation of blending the parliamentary system with our presidential system will surely do the job. The other areas are reduction in the large supernumerary staff allowances, foreign medical trips to encourage the proper development of our local healthcare institution, the major of some ministries, the fixing of our oil refineries to process the local crude oil will safe us money being used to import petroleum product.

 

Countdown: On the issue of security, we will start from Kaduna state which has been a flashpoint on the ethnic and civil disturbances in Nigeria. What in your opinion is the root cause, being an indigene and elder statesman, Chairman of the Elders Forum in Southern Kaduna? Remember the 1992 Zango/Kataf riots which God used you and protected you to be a vocal voice then, do you think the problem then is still the problem now and with your hindsight and the benefit of being a long-term personality that knows the history of some of these things?

 

General: The problem was caused by the indirect rule which the British in tagging many communities of different cultural heritage under the emirate system which does not respect diversity and human right.

However, when the missionaries came with their respect for human rights, dignity and empathy, they preached the Gospel and converted us to Christianity they then build churches and school for our education and spiritual needs bringing out the sharp difference from the emirate system to the fore. The negative antics of the indirect rule waned to some extent due to the Biblical injunctions to forgive the wrongs done us and live in peace with our neighbors which reformed as to a large extent. The 1992 crises was caused by a market relocation dispute which some selfish people letter changed into something else, but that is a story for another day. On the happenings in southern Kaduna today, it is not different from what is happening in other parts of the country since some armed bandits invaded the community. We have lived with the local Fulani herders and other in peace for generations. Infact many of them speak our local languages with some marrying our daughters. They live on our farm free of charge. Of course before the advent modern fertilizer the cow dung was the main fertilizer which the local farmers used free of charge. After the harvest their cattle usually feed on the fodder also free of charge. Thus, the relationship has always been symbiotic. In my own village, we have built a school for them and have given them with a water tap. As I am talking to you, they are happily there in peace. The invasion of the communities by armed foreign bandit is what has created the problem. Those bandits attack villages, burn them down and kill people with impunity, they also rustle some local Fulani cattle. Some of the local Fulani are also victims. Although in some cases, there is collusion somewhere. That is the situation. In my local government, following an appeal, the Defence headquarters sent more soldiers who have been doing aggressive patrolling. The solution to the problem is for the government to rise to the occasion and send these bandits back to where they come from, so that life can continue as before. As some people have said, the local herders are part of us which is a fact having been born and bred there. We do everything together. Anybody saying anything else is lying.

 

I must also say that drug abuse by some youths has become an integral part of the problem both in the local communities and local herders. So when a drug user gets high, he can do anything. For now, the coordination with the security forces on the ground is being used to curb the menace which is a clear sign of good things to come everything been equal.

 

Countdown: Like you said what is happening in Kaduna is happening in many other places, like we have in Zamfara, Benue, Kogi and Taraba – from kidnapping to banditry, cattle rustling and high level of killings going on. An elder statesman and respected retired military general, Gen. T.Y. Danjuma once cried foul on the role of the military in some of these insecurity issues especially as it affects government in Taraba and Benue axis, he literally accused some men in authority to have compromised and that their level of professionalism is now being questioned. As a retired military general sir, do you share that opinion?

 

General: Well, I respect the General. He was my boss and remains so. What he said was based on concrete evidence he had. In my own area, I have not seen it yet. But what is clear is that the level of professionalism has gone down, not only in the military, but it is part of the cancer that has seriously infested our system. The military themselves have their problems. I believe they are overstretched, given the magnitude of insecurity in the country. Take Borno for example, where Boko Haram is centered; it is one of the largest states in the country, with a very challenging terrain. The bandits too have spread to other parts of the country, even down to the Niger-Delta. And when you check the strength of the security forces on the ground, what the general said is a reflection of the standard of the military he once led compared to what is going on today. And given the period Boko Haram has been operating, the military have no time to train. As a rule when troops have operated in a place for quite a while, they are supposed to be relieved to refresh in preparation for a new tasks. But now, that is not the case. So what the General said is therefore authentic based on the evidence before him at that particular time given his reputation for saying the truth for what it is worth.

 

Countdown: Looking at the summary of what he said that time, he said because of this issue of professionalism and patriotism has dropped that Nigerians should protect themselves.

 

General: Self-protection is a natural reaction to threats on anyone. Even when one threatens a chicken, it runs for its life. Before we get there government as a duty to protect everybody. It is when that fails that people resort to self-defenece in consequence which is understandable.

 

Countdown: I have asked my next question for the past 20 years. I like to ask you again sir. There is this issue of Hausa/Fulani agenda. Do you think there is a Hausa/Fulani agenda in Nigeria, either now or in the past?

 

General: I should throw the question back to you, because you know the answer. Government has a duty to right the wrongs going on in the country, so that Nigerians can feel secure to pursue their livelihoods. That is the crux of the matter. We hear a lot of things that government being the referee is supposed to put everybody in his place, including knocking the heads of the wrong doers through due process. At the moment that is not there, and that is why people tend to do what they like. So to answer your question requires concrete evidence. Yet what is obvious the word hausa/fulani is a new vocabulary in use by some people for some reasons. The fact is that the fulani conquered the seven hausa states and took over power in 1804 or so. Majority of them remained in the countryside tending their cattle while the ruling class remain in the urban centres. If your question is prompted by the current banditry and bigotry going on in the country then only time and space will provide the concrete evidence required for a perusal of the situation. For now the facts gathering with a view to charting the best way forward continues.      

 

Countdown: Every leader was once a member of the followership. Some of us are of the opinion that the church in Nigeria is not doing enough politically for her members. There are some places today where it is a taboo to go into politics. And we have just said it now, that after God, the politicians have a big role to play to ensure that things go well. Knowing fully well that when the righteous rule, the people rejoice. But today people are not rejoicing. What can we do for the purpose of future elections?

 

General: The Christians in politics are not in politics because they are Christians. Rather they are in politics as professionals and because they feel being in politics can give them what they want. Is it for popularity or economic advantage? The problem is some of them are in politics not because they were called per se but are in the game for some other reasons. They did not consult their religious leaders before they joined politics. I think the Nigerian factor is the main problem. It takes a strong will to stand firm on an issue even when one is alone. Take for instance, people who change parties, running from one party to the other inorder to get what they want, not because they believe that party is better.

 

Well, I am not a member of the clergy. What I know is that the duty of the clergy is to interpret the scriptures properly, having been to the seminary. I cannot blame the church for the misbehavior of some Christian politicians in politics. It won’t be right for me to do so. Rather, it is the fault of those Christians who refused to behave in accordance with their faith. It is a matter of personal conviction. There could be some Christian politicians who believe that if they cannot beat them. However, there must be others who stand for what is right. For sure the church has been praying for the nation’s well-being including the need for public office holders to live up to their oaths of office.  

 

Countdown: On a light and final note sir, how has life been in retirement, what are your hobbies and what basic lessons do you want to share with our readers?

 

General: To be frank with you, life in retirement is tough because our system is not working well. We retired after serving the nation to the best of our ability to rest. But we cannot because of insecurity. The insecurity has created a situation whereby things are not working the way they should. And that has affected the economy. Then the rapid population growth has created more heads to be catered for. This also affects the input of the resources government is supposed to use to create opportunities. I am a pensioner, with a company that is dormant, I also have a farm I can’t develop because of lack of capital. What is more, this issue of kidnapping is so serious that, one can’t send workers to the farm because of the security challenges.

What is more the interest rate on bank loans and overdrafts is prohibitively high. Retirement life has therefore been very challenging. But I have not lost hope because what is happening is a passing phase in our development. It is evident that we have not been forward-looking enough in our planning but tomorrow is another day in view of the fact that failure is success if we learn something from it.

 

On my hobbies, since I can no longer play tennis, squash and badminton because of knee pains, I now manage a few holes of golf to keep body and soul together. The experience I like to share with others is the pleasure out of the satisfaction one gets on retiring from service to the nation with a clean record and conscience to the glory of God. All in all my faith in this great country stands and God willing will shall make it.

 

In conclusion, I believe like many others that the restructuring which the 2014 conference struggling recommended is a simple thing after the political way is exercised because if something is not working well it is our duty to find another means of fixing it in the interest of our progress. Those who are afraid of it, are either economical with the truth or because they are benefiting from the status quo. The question is whether the present system with its serious problems can take us to the Promised Land Since the answer is obviously no let us restructure to take our pride of place in the comity of nations.

 

Countdown: Thank you very much, sir. You have answered all our questions and our readers will be delighted to read your words. You have shown us that you are a true nationalist. We are grateful.

 

General: My pleasure.

By:Major General Zamani Lekwot, Interview with Countdown.